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QNX Sold!

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Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Alec Saunders » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:07 am

"Jutta Steinhoff" <j-steinhoff@web.de> wrote in message
news:clrus1$su1$1@inn.qnx.com...

BTW, I had a look to your homepage. I've never seen such an innovative
page for career opportunities, it's a great idea !

Thanks. I can't claim credit for the idea -- I got it from a book. But it
seemed like such a good idea that we've adopted it for all our recruiting.

A.
Alec Saunders
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby ed1k » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:02 am

In article <cls1b1$1eb$1@inn.qnx.com>, alec@iotum.com says...
"Jutta Steinhoff" <j-steinhoff@web.de> wrote in message
news:clrus1$su1$1@inn.qnx.com...

BTW, I had a look to your homepage. I've never seen such an innovative
page for career opportunities, it's a great idea !

Thanks. I can't claim credit for the idea -- I got it from a book. But it
seemed like such a good idea that we've adopted it for all our recruiting.


Hello Jutta, Alec:

Sorry for offtopic if this term's applicable here, in cafe :)

Where is that page (URL)? I'm just curious (don't think there is any
windows programming stuff in my blood, I hate every OS I had worked
with, except QNX)

Cheers,
Eduard.

P.S. I think that deal is good for QSS but rather bad for QNX community
(things went from bad to worse :o)).
ed1k
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Igor Kovalenko » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:19 am

I would say it is probably good for Harman. And for Dan & Gord too ;)

But when you think of what happened to QNX, she basically transitioned from
a bachelorette to a married woman. No more dating for her and no more being
independent player in the field.

While this deal is probably as good as it gets on this level, they could
have raised about as much in a well done IPO. Then remaining an independent
player they could have their dating game at a much higher level ;)

-- igor

"Alec Saunders" <alec@iotum.com> wrote in message
news:clrgbf$iod$1@inn.qnx.com...
"Pascal Bouchard" <pascal.bouchard@rfranco.ca> wrote in message
news:clreme$h61$1@inn.qnx.com...
The press release specifies 138M$ not 168M$

True. But $138M US is the same as $168M CDN.

I would just comment that $138M in cash is not a firesale price. A
firesale
would be selling for a slight premium to 1x sales. The company has always
lived closed to the edge, but it looks, from where I sit, like someone has
finally recognized QNX for the gem it really is.

Personally, I think things look very bright for QSSL.

Harman is an astute and well managed company. In the last three years
their
stock has moved from below $20/share to $120 today. Their profits were up
70% over the last year as well. What Harman chooses to do with the
technology remains to be seen, but the growth markets for this software
are
in consumer electronics, automotive, and networking. Harman is in two of
those markets directly, and needs solid networking components to realize
their goals. The vision of ubiquitous, networked and intelligent devices
that we, as an industry, spoke about at the end of the 1990's is finally
becoming true! Harman has decided that owning this piece of core
technology
is a better choice than paying someone else for it.

Congratulations Dan, Gord, and everyone else at QSSL. Well done!

A.

Igor Kovalenko
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby rgallen » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:54 am

Igor Kovalenko wrote:
I would say it is probably good for Harman. And for Dan & Gord too ;)

But when you think of what happened to QNX, she basically transitioned from
a bachelorette to a married woman. No more dating for her and no more being
independent player in the field.

Not necessarily. It isn't unheard of to have companies acquired, grown and spun off into IPOs (not sure I have a good marriage
analogy for this scenerio).

While this deal is probably as good as it gets on this level, they could
have raised about as much in a well done IPO. Then remaining an independent
player they could have their dating game at a much higher level ;)

While $138,000,000 is a nice chunk of change for 2 individuals to split up, it wouldn't do much toward making a big push into the
automotive market; with Harman $B's behind them, QNX stands a much better chance of becoming the de-facto standard in automotive
applications...
rgallen
QNX Master
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:48 pm

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Igor Kovalenko » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:18 am

"Rennie Allen" <rallen@csical.com> wrote in message
news:4181B0CC.4040003@csical.com...
Igor Kovalenko wrote:
I would say it is probably good for Harman. And for Dan & Gord too ;)

But when you think of what happened to QNX, she basically transitioned
from
a bachelorette to a married woman. No more dating for her and no more
being
independent player in the field.

Not necessarily. It isn't unheard of to have companies acquired, grown
and spun off into IPOs (not sure I have a good marriage
analogy for this scenerio).

Well, it is not unheard of for a married woman to divorce taking some money
and then marry a better suitor ;)

While this deal is probably as good as it gets on this level, they could
have raised about as much in a well done IPO. Then remaining an
independent
player they could have their dating game at a much higher level ;)

While $138,000,000 is a nice chunk of change for 2 individuals to split
up, it wouldn't do much toward making a big push into the
automotive market; with Harman $B's behind them, QNX stands a much better
chance of becoming the de-facto standard in automotive
applications...


Perhaps. But the terms of deal seem to suggest that QNX will operate
independently for few next years. I somehow doubt that pouring $B into
something you have no direct operational control of is high on the agenda of
people holding those $B...

It would be more logical for them to push their revenue-generating products.
Neither Sun nor Apple make any money on software, although Solaris and MacOS
are vital part of their business. QNX might become just as vital for Harman,
but not for their competitors. Being locked into an independent OS vendor is
one thing, but being locked into an OS that belongs to some hardware
manufacturer is totally different story. This will rule out QNX for a lot of
people, unless they do something really smart with licensing policies. In
the past QNX has either refused to do things like source code escrow or
demanded unreasonable fees for that. Now concerns of prospective customers
will be even greater...
Igor Kovalenko
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Evan Hillas » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:29 am

Igor Kovalenko wrote:
While this deal is probably as good as it gets on this level, they could
have raised about as much in a well done IPO. Then remaining an independent
player they could have their dating game at a much higher level ;)


In a rush for growth it seems ...
"Accepting a buyout offer was a means to build the necessary momentum
and acquire the financial resources to push its products into the market
against big players such as Microsoft Corp. faster than was possible by
going the route of a public offering, Mr. Dodge said."
Evan Hillas
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby jutta » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:10 am

Alec Saunders wrote:
"Jutta Steinhoff" <j-steinhoff@web.de> wrote in message
news:clrus1$su1$1@inn.qnx.com...


BTW, I had a look to your homepage. I've never seen such an innovative
page for career opportunities, it's a great idea !


Thanks. I can't claim credit for the idea -- I got it from a book. But it
seemed like such a good idea that we've adopted it for all our recruiting.


Anyway, it's a very interessting idea to get reduced and more qualified
applications ;-)

Jutta
jutta
Active Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:04 pm

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby jutta » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:13 am

ed1k wrote:

In article <cls1b1$1eb$1@inn.qnx.com>, alec@iotum.com says...

"Jutta Steinhoff" <j-steinhoff@web.de> wrote in message
news:clrus1$su1$1@inn.qnx.com...


BTW, I had a look to your homepage. I've never seen such an innovative
page for career opportunities, it's a great idea !

Thanks. I can't claim credit for the idea -- I got it from a book. But it
seemed like such a good idea that we've adopted it for all our recruiting.



Hello Jutta, Alec:

Sorry for offtopic if this term's applicable here, in cafe :)

Where is that page (URL)?

Edik, have a look to Alec's email address ... ;-)
www.iotum.com

I'm just curious (don't think there is any
windows programming stuff in my blood, I hate every OS I had worked
with, except QNX)

Cheers,
Eduard.

P.S. I think that deal is good for QSS but rather bad for QNX community
(things went from bad to worse :o)).

I don't agree with you !!!

Regards,
Jutta
jutta
Active Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:04 pm

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Robert Rutherford » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:38 am

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:18:06 -0500, Igor Kovalenko wrote:

QNX might become just as vital for Harman,
but not for their competitors. Being locked into an independent OS vendor is
one thing, but being locked into an OS that belongs to some hardware
manufacturer is totally different story. This will rule out QNX for a lot of
people, unless they do something really smart with licensing policies.

I agree with Igor and really think this is the key point. I feel the
chances of QNX becoming "the de-facto standard" for automotive (or any
other industry segment in which Harman plays) are surely reduced by this
deal, not enhanced. Put yourself in the shoes of another manufacturer in
the automotive space. Why would you pick QNX when
- it puts money in the pocket of your competitor?
- it forces you to expose to your competitor, at least to some extent, your
business and technical plans and forecasts?
- your competitor is going to have earlier and better access to new QNX
technology and support, not to mention the ability to influence the
direction of the OS?

It doesn't matter how much QNX protests "independence", this will be the
perception of large sections of the marketplace.

Good for Harman? Good for Dan/Gord? Good for QNX employees? All yes.

Good for the rest of us? Let's wait and see.

Just my 2 Australian cents (so not worth much at all),

Rob Rutherford
Robert Rutherford
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Steinhoff » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:27 pm

Robert Rutherford wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:18:06 -0500, Igor Kovalenko wrote:


QNX might become just as vital for Harman,
but not for their competitors. Being locked into an independent OS vendor is
one thing, but being locked into an OS that belongs to some hardware
manufacturer is totally different story. This will rule out QNX for a lot of
people, unless they do something really smart with licensing policies.


I agree with Igor and really think this is the key point. I feel the
chances of QNX becoming "the de-facto standard" for automotive (or any
other industry segment in which Harman plays) are surely reduced by this
deal, not enhanced. Put yourself in the shoes of another manufacturer in
the automotive space. Why would you pick QNX when
- it puts money in the pocket of your competitor?

Have in mind that Harman operates in the product niche of audio and in
some extent video devices. Here are their competitors ...

That means they will not compete with network, telematik or automation
companies and all vendors not delivering embedded devices to the
automotives. I beliefe that this 'niche' is much bigger than the
audio-video-automotive-niche

- it forces you to expose to your competitor, at least to some extent, your
business and technical plans and forecasts?
- your competitor is going to have earlier and better access to new QNX
technology and support, not to mention the ability to influence the
direction of the OS?

True ... but QSSL will offer here 'advanced custome engineering' :)

It doesn't matter how much QNX protests "independence", this will be the
perception of large sections of the marketplace.

Good for Harman? Good for Dan/Gord? Good for QNX employees? All yes.

Good for the rest of us?

Good question ... we will see how important will be revenues outsite of
the audio-video-automotive-niche for Harman/QSSL. Big questionmark ...

Regards

Armin
Steinhoff
QNX Master
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:56 am

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Alec Saunders » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:41 pm

Anyway, it's a very interessting idea to get reduced and more qualified
applications ;-)

Exactly -- just one in five chooses to do the problem, and based on their
submission we know in advance the quality of work they do. It's been very
effective.

A.
Alec Saunders
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Igor Kovalenko » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:24 pm

"Alec Saunders" <alec@iotum.com> wrote in message
news:clth0d$5n2$1@inn.qnx.com...
Anyway, it's a very interessting idea to get reduced and more qualified
applications ;-)

Exactly -- just one in five chooses to do the problem, and based on their
submission we know in advance the quality of work they do. It's been very
effective.


Lol. This game is known as 'sea battle' in Russia and is often played in
schools to kill time on boring lections ;)
It is also played here, but i am not sure about the name. The problem is
trivial enough...

-- igor
Igor Kovalenko
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby ed1k » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:27 pm

Jutta Steinhoff wrote:

Sorry for offtopic if this term\\\'s applicable here, in cafe :)

Where is that page (URL)?

Edik, have a look to Alec\\\'s email address ... ;-)
www.iotum.com

Ah, thanks! I failed to recognize that is Alec\\\'s homepage. Now I
browsed the career section and found what you meant. IMO that\\\'s very
progressive idea and many ukrainian companies use that. At least, I had to
write some assembler code joining my last employer in Ukraine. I found it
funny, but from my experience, some (quite many) canadian graduates feel
offended by this hiring technique. Recently some companies practised that
simply tests at job fair in Waterloo region collecting resumes, almost all
local graduates prefered left their resumes to the other companies. BTW,
that kind of game is known as \\\"Sea Battle\\\" in xUSSR (was very
popular during school classes :)). Sadly I have no experience with .NET
and probably solutions in plain C is not acceptable there :o) Beside,
there is no dimension of grid (some kind of error could be \\\"outside of
grid\\\") and it is unknown how some previous function placed the objects
on the grid (what is the method of storage that information). Returning
back to my story, I was given a schematic of real but very simple device
they manufactured (remote control pannel: MCU, 16-key keyboard and LED
display), so after looking through my code and satisfaction with
programming style, they compiled it and put into flash. They were looking
for 6 months to find someone whose code wasn\\\'t only elegant but
working, finally they found two persons in a day. They hired both ;-) Just
for reference, MCU was AVR 4414 and we worked with some DSP from TI,
barely touching the AVR code :-)

P.S. I think that deal is good for QSS but rather bad for QNX community
(things went from bad to worse :o)).

I don\\\'t agree with you !!!

Yes, I know. Isn\\\'t it normal to have a different view? I don\\\'t think
they bought QSS jsut to save some money on licence fee and to have some
profit selling QNX RTOS. My completely guessing is that Harman has some
perspective projects which requires their expertise in their fields plus
some advanced and modern RTOS. Probably specific of projects require full
control over technology. I\\\'m analysing amounts of money put in that
deal mentioned elsewhere and... political situation in United States.
Putin already said who will be next president of Ukraine, and probably
there is already a very high odds who win election in USA. Therefore those
perspective projects looks more realistic then ever. Might be some risk
involved, but you can\\\'t buy something at reasonable price if everyone
knows you are rich and definetely need that. That means some next major
release of QNX would be far far away from people who use it now. This
isn\\\'t my beliefs, just some game of my insane fantasy :-)
Eduard.
ed1k
 

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby rgallen » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:13 pm

Robert Rutherford wrote:

I agree with Igor and really think this is the key point. I feel the
chances of QNX becoming "the de-facto standard" for automotive (or any
other industry segment in which Harman plays) are surely reduced by this
deal, not enhanced. Put yourself in the shoes of another manufacturer in
the automotive space. Why would you pick QNX when
- it puts money in the pocket of your competitor?
- it forces you to expose to your competitor, at least to some extent, your
business and technical plans and forecasts?
- your competitor is going to have earlier and better access to new QNX
technology and support, not to mention the ability to influence the
direction of the OS?

Well that depends on whether Harman/QNX becomes one of the defacto platforms for automotive. The auto industry like to have 2 (maybe
3) large vendors to chose from. No one company will own the whole space, but one may own the larger share of the space (look at Moto
for instance, they supply the majority of auto silicon, but the auto mfgs keep a large enough market share for others to keep them
interested and moto honest). I can only assume that Dan and Gord feel that the Harman/QNX platform is going to be at least one of
these players if not the dominant player. This is a good solid base that provides the revenue and motivation to keep improving QNX.

It doesn't matter how much QNX protests "independence", this will be the
perception of large sections of the marketplace.

Well we are in the industrial automation space, and Harman has never competed with us and I see no reason they ever would. If
Harman/QNX dominates the automotive space it has little impact on us, other than potentially changing focus. Personally, I think the
auto space is going to be looking for high reliability with a reduced emphasis on featuritis, and that parallels well with the IA
space (and the medical space with which I am also familiar). If I didn't see a single new feature in QNX for five years (only a
continuing increase in reliability and performance) I would be very happy.

Good for the rest of us? Let's wait and see.

Well, I think for us the question is already answered, QNX will have more resources, and this can only be good.

Rennie
rgallen
QNX Master
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:48 pm

Re: QNX Sold!

Postby Kris Warkentin » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:31 pm

Igor Kovalenko wrote:
Lol. This game is known as 'sea battle' in Russia and is often played in
schools to kill time on boring lections ;)
It is also played here, but i am not sure about the name. The problem is
trivial enough...

"Battleship"

cheers,

Kris
Kris Warkentin
 

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