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Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; rights f

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Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Steve Reid » Thu May 19, 2005 1:18 pm

Robert Krten <rk@parse.com> wrote:
Yes, and even that is (unfortunately) a can of worms :-) Without
getting too deeply into the specifics, QSS is contractually obligated
to include it, and even so it was missed on several releases and betas,

I remember adding it to CVS and the docs' Makefile, to make sure that that
wouldn't happen again.

and moved from what I consider a prominent place (the helpview main
index) to a more obscure place. Granted, even I'll admit that having
the default helpviewer window open up with the book was a little over
the edge :-) but taking it out of the helpview index is a vast
downgrade in visibility...

It's still there: Getting Started With QNX Neutrino 2, but as you say,
it isn't at the top. In my system, Dinkum, the DDKs, and various BSPs
come before it. Perhaps you should have started the title with
"Aardvark" or "AAAA" like companies in the phone book. :-)

We also recommend your books -- complete with ISBN and your website --
in the Welcome to QNX Momentics guide.

Nothing against you, Steve (as I trust you know), just sharing (more)
blunt observations...

Yes, I know -- I quite enjoy working with you.

------------------------------------------
Steve Reid stever@qnx.com
TechPubs (Technical Publications)
QNX Software Systems
------------------------------------------
Steve Reid
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby John Nagle » Thu May 19, 2005 4:43 pm

QSSL can't afford to lose those books.

"The automotive industry is choosing Linux because it offers vendor
neutrality, lower cost of entry and faster time to market. There are
more Linux developers becoming available on the market and the
'time-to-debug' is usually much less," -- Glenn Seiler, director of
product marketing at MontaVista Software, am embedded Linux vendor,
in March 2005.

Read that carefully. The automotive sector, the
remaining major market area for QNX, is being targeted by
an embedded Linux vendor. And a major selling point is
that more people know how to develop for Linux. Yet
QSSL is about to let the last books on how to develop for
QNX disappear.

Remember, you can't let the inside sales people set long
term policy. Commission salespeople have a time horizon
no longer than their commission cycle. If the product
declines, they'll go sell something else. QSSL's strategy
of focusing on the customers likely to generate large
commissions in the near term has resulted in a narrower and
narrower market slice for QNX. Retail POS systems are gone,
Internet appliances are gone, and industrial automation
is going. What's left besides sales to a few automotive
suppliers, Cisco, and internal sales to Harman?

For that matter, what Harman products
actually use QNX? Harman has several Windows CE products co-developed
with Microsoft, including the Take Control remote and
the Auto PC. HiQnet, Harman's network control system
for pro audio, is Windows-based. But what uses QNX?

Perhaps the QSSL acquisition was just a move
to get better prices from Microsoft on Windows CE.

John Nagle
Downside
John Nagle
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Kris Warkentin » Thu May 19, 2005 5:34 pm

John Nagle wrote:
For that matter, what Harman products
actually use QNX? Harman has several Windows CE products co-developed
with Microsoft, including the Take Control remote and
the Auto PC. HiQnet, Harman's network control system
for pro audio, is Windows-based. But what uses QNX?

http://www.harmanbecker.com/harmanBecke ... anguage=US

cheers,

Kris
Kris Warkentin
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby rk » Thu May 19, 2005 5:52 pm

Kris Warkentin <kewarken@qnx.com> wrote:
John Nagle wrote:
For that matter, what Harman products
actually use QNX? Harman has several Windows CE products co-developed
with Microsoft, including the Take Control remote and
the Auto PC. HiQnet, Harman's network control system
for pro audio, is Windows-based. But what uses QNX?

http://www.harmanbecker.com/harmanBecke ... anguage=US

I see no QNX here:

HARMAN/BECKER introduces your car to a world of fascinating possibilities
through the development of customized automotive systems that enhance
your driving experience. Drawing upon world-class technology from
Becker?, harman/kardon?, Infinity?, JBL?, Mark Levinson? und Lexicon?,
HARMAN/BECKER integrates complete entertainment, information and
communication systems.

So, QNX is either not "world-class technology", or it's just lumped into
"information and communication systems". Must be more brilliant
marketing :-)

Or... perhaps you meant that I should use the "Search" box for QNX?
If so, it's even more embarrassing:

Search Term: qnx

Your search did not match any documents !

Sorry, don't understand how your URL answers the "which products use QNX"
question...???

Cheers,
-RK
rk
Senior Member
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:58 pm

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Kris Warkentin » Thu May 19, 2005 6:09 pm

John Nagle wrote:
Kris Warkentin wrote:

John Nagle wrote:

For that matter, what Harman products
actually use QNX? Harman has several Windows CE products co-developed
with Microsoft, including the Take Control remote and
the Auto PC. HiQnet, Harman's network control system
for pro audio, is Windows-based. But what uses QNX?



http://www.harmanbecker.com/harmanBecke ... anguage=US


I can't find any reference to QNX there.

I put "QNX" in the search box there, and got back

Search Term: QNX
Your search did not match any documents!

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. The fact that you found
nothing on the website only means that I probably should have kept my
mouth shut, not that I'm wrong. You were speculating as to which
divisions of Harman might have use for QNX technology and I showed you one.

cheers,

Kris
Kris Warkentin
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby John Nagle » Thu May 19, 2005 6:16 pm

Kris Warkentin wrote:

John Nagle wrote:

For that matter, what Harman products
actually use QNX? Harman has several Windows CE products co-developed
with Microsoft, including the Take Control remote and
the Auto PC. HiQnet, Harman's network control system
for pro audio, is Windows-based. But what uses QNX?


http://www.harmanbecker.com/harmanBecke ... anguage=US

I can't find any reference to QNX there.

I put "QNX" in the search box there, and got back

Search Term: QNX
Your search did not match any documents!

John Nagle
John Nagle
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Miguel Simon » Thu May 19, 2005 7:38 pm

Hi Kris...

A search for QNX on the Harman/Becker link below... gives you a
not-matched response. Too bad; hey have to update their database perhaps.

Regards...

Miguel.




Kris Warkentin wrote:
Miguel Simon
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby John Nagle » Thu May 19, 2005 7:45 pm

Kris Warkentin wrote:
John Nagle wrote:

Kris Warkentin wrote:

John Nagle wrote:

For that matter, what Harman products
actually use QNX? Harman has several Windows CE products co-developed
with Microsoft, including the Take Control remote and
the Auto PC. HiQnet, Harman's network control system
for pro audio, is Windows-based. But what uses QNX?

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. The fact that you found
nothing on the website only means that I probably should have kept my
mouth shut, not that I'm wrong.

OK, I found it.

There's a doctoral dissertation from the University of
Passau in Germany which mentions a joint development effort
of a finite-state machine generator for QNX in association
with Harman/Becker GmbH.

http://www.im.uni-passau.de/db/projekte ... manBecker1

There are also projects to develop "debug support for
embedded applications" and a "software quality monitoring
toolkit".

That's modestly encouraging. One of the big issues in
automotive systems right now is who's responsible for system
level debugging. The component suppliers aren't in a central
enough position, and the auto manufacturers don't want to
debug their supplier's code. That opens a window for
QNX, which has better isolation between components than
most comparable systems, allowing for easier blame management.

John Nagle
John Nagle
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Miguel Simon » Thu May 19, 2005 7:58 pm

Hi Kris...

May not too evident, but every one in this NG wants QNX to succeed. What
I hear time and again is "how can we help? Help us help you!"



....off-topic... + musing...

....how'bout if Micro$oft one day realizes that CE can't compete
technically, buys QNX from Harman for pocket change (say, $200M US),
decides to switch its embedded-OS to QNX, and then QNX becomes
'de-facto' RTOS because of massive M$ propaganda??

....nah, too much common sense... /done musing.



Regards...

Miguel.



Kris Warkentin wrote:
You asked a question, I gave you an answer. The fact that you found
nothing on the website only means that I probably should have kept my
mouth shut, not that I'm wrong. You were speculating as to which
divisions of Harman might have use for QNX technology and I showed you one.

cheers,

Kris
Miguel Simon
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby John Nagle » Thu May 19, 2005 9:01 pm

Miguel Simon wrote:
Hi Kris...

May not too evident, but every one in this NG wants QNX to succeed. What
I hear time and again is "how can we help? Help us help you!"



...off-topic... + musing...

...how'bout if Micro$oft one day realizes that CE can't compete
technically, buys QNX from Harman for pocket change (say, $200M US),
decides to switch its embedded-OS to QNX, and then QNX becomes
'de-facto' RTOS because of massive M$ propaganda??

...nah, too much common sense... /done musing.

I've heard that QSSL management turned down a bid for
QNX years ago, when Microsoft was first developing Windows CE.

Now it's probably too late.

Ask Encyclopedia Brittanica how this works. Microsoft
wanted to buy them. They turned Microsoft down. Microsoft
did Encarta. Years later, Brittanica approached Microsoft
again, and was told, by Gates, that their company now had
negative value. Their retail sales force had kept the company
from making encyclopedias a high-volume, low margin product,
and that dragged the whole company down.

You can still buy an Encyclopedia Brittanica in
print form, but nobody does. $1000 in print form,
$49.95 on DVD. They had to come down to Encarta's price.

Then came Wikipedia. Brittanica finally went to a
free online service and had to give their core
product away. (http://www.britannica.com)
By then it was too late. Wikipedia gets more hits.


John Nagle
Downside
John Nagle
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Mario Charest » Fri May 20, 2005 1:15 am

"John Nagle" <nagle@downside.com> wrote in message
news:d6itk9$bqr$1@inn.qnx.com...
Miguel Simon wrote:
Hi Kris...

May not too evident, but every one in this NG wants QNX to succeed. What
I hear time and again is "how can we help? Help us help you!"



...off-topic... + musing...

...how'bout if Micro$oft one day realizes that CE can't compete
technically, buys QNX from Harman for pocket change (say, $200M US),
decides to switch its embedded-OS to QNX, and then QNX becomes 'de-facto'
RTOS because of massive M$ propaganda??

...nah, too much common sense... /done musing.

I've heard that QSSL management turned down a bid for
QNX years ago, when Microsoft was first developing Windows CE.

And if they would have accepted the bid, I bet you would have posted that
QNX
sold its soul to the devil....

This is actually getting very boring, Most people here wouldn't last a
week if they had to run a company the size of QNX, yet they really sound
like they do know the right way do to things, sigh!

Now it's probably too late.


Ask Encyclopedia Brittanica how this works. Microsoft
wanted to buy them. They turned Microsoft down. Microsoft
did Encarta. Years later, Brittanica approached Microsoft
again, and was told, by Gates, that their company now had
negative value. Their retail sales force had kept the company
from making encyclopedias a high-volume, low margin product,
and that dragged the whole company down.

You can still buy an Encyclopedia Brittanica in
print form, but nobody does. $1000 in print form,
$49.95 on DVD. They had to come down to Encarta's price.


And what's wrong with that?
Mario Charest
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Kevin Stallard » Mon May 23, 2005 2:15 pm

For what its worth, my sales person gives away copies of your book to
potential customers who have questions. They carry a number of copies of it
around with them...

Kevin

"Robert Krten" <rk@parse.com> wrote in message
news:d6fk12$q5d$1@inn.qnx.com...
Malte Mundt <mmundt@qnx.de> wrote:
If you had a flyer advertising the book, we could leave it at a customer
site after a visit, and include it when we send out our info folder.
There
wasn't much advertisement for your great books, and I think it would be
a
pity if they were no longer available.

I think my German distributor, Steinhoff Automation, has exactly what you
are
looking for! Contact Jutta Steinhoff (jutta@steinhoff.de)...

The reason this was not done in the past is because I tried. I asked QNX
to
let me advertise by renting their mailing lists. Shot down.
I asked QNX to let me advertise by including flyers in the product boxes
going out of QNX. Nope. I asked QNX how a third party was supposed to
advertise to the customer base -- nothing useful ever came out of this.
Hence
I gave up. Unfortunately, what became clear over time that QNX was just
not
interested in helping out small third-party vendors.

Cheers,
-RK

Malte

"Robert Krten" <rk@parse.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d6ff5o$mv2$1@inn.qnx.com...
Malte Mundt <mmundt@qnx.de> wrote:
Why do not print another batch? Not enough interest?

Correct. Since posting this a few weeks ago, I've sold 2 books.
I figure the < 100 that are left are a year's supply at this rate :-)
In order to get a decent price on the printing, I would need to print
at least a run of 500.

Cheers,
-RK

"Robert Krten" <rk@parse.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d5qfh4$2hb$3@inn.qnx.com...
The "Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2" book is now out of
print,
there
are limited quantities (< 100) available through PARSE and
distribution.

If anyone is interested, rights (exclusive, all languages except
for
Japanese
and Russian) are available for sale, contact rk@parse.com for more
info.

Cheers,
-RK

[xpost to comp.os.qnx, qdn.cafe]




Kevin Stallard
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby rgallen » Mon May 23, 2005 6:06 pm

Mario Charest wrote:

And if they would have accepted the bid, I bet you would have posted that
QNX
sold its soul to the devil....

This is actually getting very boring, Most people here wouldn't last a
week if they had to run a company the size of QNX, yet they really sound
like they do know the right way do to things, sigh!

Google back to the 1999-2000 timeframe when the complaint de jour was that
QSSL was "missing the boat" by not going public. The example often cited
was the 20 Billion dollar market cap. for Red Hat. Ah yes, the heady days
of irrational exuberance ;-)

Rennie
rgallen
QNX Master
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:48 pm

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby Igor Kovalenko » Mon May 23, 2005 8:44 pm

According to this logic, nobody should criticize government either, because
most people would not last a week in the position of let's say a president.
Likewise, nobody should criticize a product because most people would not
come close to making something comparable.

This is fundamentally silly position - you criticize things by comaraing
things against their competition, not against yourself. And if you look at
the competition, QNX has been passed in recent years (in terms of market
penetration) by companies who used to be behind and did not have nearly long
enough head start. GreenHills comes to mind, and they are not even riding
the Linux wave while doing that, so this convinient excuse does not apply...

With all the talk of 'best' and 'first' this would seem a little odd, no?

-- igor

"Rennie Allen" <rallen@csical.com> wrote in message
news:42921BB0.3060107@csical.com...
Mario Charest wrote:

And if they would have accepted the bid, I bet you would have posted that
QNX
sold its soul to the devil....

This is actually getting very boring, Most people here wouldn't last a
week if they had to run a company the size of QNX, yet they really sound
like they do know the right way do to things, sigh!

Google back to the 1999-2000 timeframe when the complaint de jour was that
QSSL was "missing the boat" by not going public. The example often cited
was the 20 Billion dollar market cap. for Red Hat. Ah yes, the heady days
of irrational exuberance ;-)

Rennie
Igor Kovalenko
 

Re: Out of print: Getting Started with QNX Neutrino 2; righ

Postby rgallen » Mon May 23, 2005 9:19 pm

Igor Kovalenko wrote:

This is fundamentally silly position - you criticize things by comaraing
things against their competition, not against yourself. And if you look at
the competition, QNX has been passed in recent years (in terms of market
penetration) by companies who used to be behind and did not have nearly long
enough head start. GreenHills comes to mind, and they are not even riding
the Linux wave while doing that, so this convinient excuse does not apply...

Wow. Now there is a cool paragraph. It starts with making the statement that
one should not compare a company against its competition (but -presumably- against
its own past performance), and then it ends by comparing a company with it's
competition, and proposing this as evidence that said company is not performing ;-)

What is it ? Does the competion matter or not ?

I actually couldn't care less, I was lampooning arm chair CEOs (not comparing
any company with any other company).
rgallen
QNX Master
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:48 pm

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