experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

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Miguel Simon

experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Miguel Simon » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:38 pm

Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.

Marty Doane

Re: experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Marty Doane » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:30 pm

We've been using Rose with QNX 6 for years, and are quite happy with the
environment. We code generate without issue. Of course you then need to have
your source code accessible by a Windows box, but that's easily
accomplished. STL is used extensively, but we don't have it modeled.

We've exclusively used the Rose C++ language option, which Rational has been
warning will go away soon. I'm not sure what implications the ANSI C++
option will have.

If you haven't already, you might also evaluate Rhapsody. Some of our
developers wanted to switch from Rose to Rhapsody, but our management
wouldn't budge.

Do you have specific questions?
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:ccujic$4f3$1@inn.qnx.com...
Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.

Miguel Simon

Re: experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Miguel Simon » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:01 pm

Hi Marty...

Thanks for your update on Rational Rose. I have been trying to get
Rational for quite some time, and only now decision makers are
listening. I have the go ahead to purchase a license, but I suppose that
I could evaluate Rational before I make a final recommendation. Rhapsody
seems to be an option as well which I will explore.

I am not sure what questions to ask, but I have a few of them:

1. What specific tool set do we need to get from Rational that will
integrate with QNX tools?

2. you mentioned that you use Rose C++ tools. When those go away, I
suppose that Rose has other options such as ANSI C++. Any other options?

3. Do you need to specify compilers options in Rose, or can you delegate
to the tools underneath such as QNX compiler tools (where there are a
number of compiler options)?

4. I suppose that Rose UML diagrams integrate with the Eclipse platform.
Is this the case?

Thanks again.

Best Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane wrote:
We've been using Rose with QNX 6 for years, and are quite happy with the
environment. We code generate without issue. Of course you then need to have
your source code accessible by a Windows box, but that's easily
accomplished. STL is used extensively, but we don't have it modeled.

We've exclusively used the Rose C++ language option, which Rational has been
warning will go away soon. I'm not sure what implications the ANSI C++
option will have.

If you haven't already, you might also evaluate Rhapsody. Some of our
developers wanted to switch from Rose to Rhapsody, but our management
wouldn't budge.

Do you have specific questions?
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:ccujic$4f3$1@inn.qnx.com...

Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane

Re: experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Marty Doane » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:05 pm

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:cd15oo$653$1@inn.qnx.com...
Hi Marty...

I am not sure what questions to ask, but I have a few of them:

1. What specific tool set do we need to get from Rational that will
integrate with QNX tools?
I haven't kept up with how they're packaging things these days - someone
else watches that. We have the "Rational Suite Team Unifying Platform",
which includes a whole set of Rational products. The only one you need for
this context is "Rational Rose Enterprise Edition" - I'm running version
2002.05.20, which may not be the latest. Rose used to come in several
"edtions" with varying capabilities - I don't know what's available today.
Specifically, you need C++ code generation capability, not just modeling
capability.

As far as integration issues, we don't tightly integrate Rose with anything.
Rose produces model files and produces/updates C++ source files. Those
source files can be members of a QNX IDE project if you want, but the tools
don't know about each other.
2. you mentioned that you use Rose C++ tools. When those go away, I
suppose that Rose has other options such as ANSI C++. Any other options?
There are various language choices - Ada 83, Ada 95, Java, VC++, Visual
Basic, etc. For C++, the early Rose versions included "Rose C++", which
includes quite a lot of options on how the code is generated. This lets you
tailor quite a few things. Later Rose versions added ANSI C++, which has
less options for code generation. I've not researched whether using the ANSI
C++ language limits our code generation options in ways that hurt us or not.
My guess is that if it does, it probably wouldn't have to do with QNX
compatibility issues, but would be more in the area of how we've organized
our projects.
3. Do you need to specify compilers options in Rose, or can you delegate
to the tools underneath such as QNX compiler tools (where there are a
number of compiler options)?
If you're talking about compiler command line options, Rose has no
connection to that. You'll still need a system to invoke the compiler/linker
that you manage outside the scope of Rose (makefiles?). If you're talking
about commands/directives within the source code, Rose allows you to
manually add lines most anywhere in the code.
4. I suppose that Rose UML diagrams integrate with the Eclipse platform.
Is this the case?
I don't have any experience with any Eclipse tools other than the QNX IDE. I
saw that Rational has plans for Eclipse offerings - don't know if they have
delivered anything.
Thanks again.

Best Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane wrote:
We've been using Rose with QNX 6 for years, and are quite happy with the
environment. We code generate without issue. Of course you then need to
have
your source code accessible by a Windows box, but that's easily
accomplished. STL is used extensively, but we don't have it modeled.

We've exclusively used the Rose C++ language option, which Rational has
been
warning will go away soon. I'm not sure what implications the ANSI C++
option will have.

If you haven't already, you might also evaluate Rhapsody. Some of our
developers wanted to switch from Rose to Rhapsody, but our management
wouldn't budge.

Do you have specific questions?
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:ccujic$4f3$1@inn.qnx.com...

Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.




Marty Doane

Re: experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Marty Doane » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:22 pm

I see in the qnx.rtos forum that you're discussing an RTOS adaption layer.
That implies to me that your question is about Rose Real Time rather than
"plain" Rose. I don't have any direct experience with that environment. Our
use of Rose is only to generate structural code, not any behavioral code.
That means that Rose can generate the header files completely (usually), and
that the body files are generated with everything but the method bodies
populated. It never generates code for the method bodies.

Rose Real Time does generate behavioral code, and this raises the issue of
compatibility with the underlying RTOS. I also speculate that it locks you
into a particular design approach for your applications that might be
difficult to deviate from. If it's well suited for your application great,
if not, ...

My previous comment about Rhapsody was because we believed that it looked
superior to Rose Real Time for behavioral modeling and implementation.
However that was not based on a thorough evaluation.
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Marty Doane" <martin.doane@siemens.com> wrote in message
news:cd6467$3f4$1@inn.qnx.com...
"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:cd15oo$653$1@inn.qnx.com...
Hi Marty...

I am not sure what questions to ask, but I have a few of them:

1. What specific tool set do we need to get from Rational that will
integrate with QNX tools?

I haven't kept up with how they're packaging things these days - someone
else watches that. We have the "Rational Suite Team Unifying Platform",
which includes a whole set of Rational products. The only one you need for
this context is "Rational Rose Enterprise Edition" - I'm running version
2002.05.20, which may not be the latest. Rose used to come in several
"edtions" with varying capabilities - I don't know what's available today.
Specifically, you need C++ code generation capability, not just modeling
capability.

As far as integration issues, we don't tightly integrate Rose with
anything.
Rose produces model files and produces/updates C++ source files. Those
source files can be members of a QNX IDE project if you want, but the
tools
don't know about each other.

2. you mentioned that you use Rose C++ tools. When those go away, I
suppose that Rose has other options such as ANSI C++. Any other options?

There are various language choices - Ada 83, Ada 95, Java, VC++, Visual
Basic, etc. For C++, the early Rose versions included "Rose C++", which
includes quite a lot of options on how the code is generated. This lets
you
tailor quite a few things. Later Rose versions added ANSI C++, which has
less options for code generation. I've not researched whether using the
ANSI
C++ language limits our code generation options in ways that hurt us or
not.
My guess is that if it does, it probably wouldn't have to do with QNX
compatibility issues, but would be more in the area of how we've organized
our projects.

3. Do you need to specify compilers options in Rose, or can you delegate
to the tools underneath such as QNX compiler tools (where there are a
number of compiler options)?

If you're talking about compiler command line options, Rose has no
connection to that. You'll still need a system to invoke the
compiler/linker
that you manage outside the scope of Rose (makefiles?). If you're talking
about commands/directives within the source code, Rose allows you to
manually add lines most anywhere in the code.

4. I suppose that Rose UML diagrams integrate with the Eclipse platform.
Is this the case?

I don't have any experience with any Eclipse tools other than the QNX IDE.
I
saw that Rational has plans for Eclipse offerings - don't know if they
have
delivered anything.

Thanks again.

Best Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane wrote:
We've been using Rose with QNX 6 for years, and are quite happy with
the
environment. We code generate without issue. Of course you then need
to
have
your source code accessible by a Windows box, but that's easily
accomplished. STL is used extensively, but we don't have it modeled.

We've exclusively used the Rose C++ language option, which Rational
has
been
warning will go away soon. I'm not sure what implications the ANSI C++
option will have.

If you haven't already, you might also evaluate Rhapsody. Some of our
developers wanted to switch from Rose to Rhapsody, but our management
wouldn't budge.

Do you have specific questions?
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:ccujic$4f3$1@inn.qnx.com...

Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.






Miguel Simon

Re: experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Miguel Simon » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:11 pm

Hi Marty...

Thanks for your comments here; they are very helpful. I appreciate your
help on this. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.


Marty Doane wrote:
"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:cd15oo$653$1@inn.qnx.com...

Hi Marty...

I am not sure what questions to ask, but I have a few of them:

1. What specific tool set do we need to get from Rational that will
integrate with QNX tools?


I haven't kept up with how they're packaging things these days - someone
else watches that. We have the "Rational Suite Team Unifying Platform",
which includes a whole set of Rational products. The only one you need for
this context is "Rational Rose Enterprise Edition" - I'm running version
2002.05.20, which may not be the latest. Rose used to come in several
"edtions" with varying capabilities - I don't know what's available today.
Specifically, you need C++ code generation capability, not just modeling
capability.

As far as integration issues, we don't tightly integrate Rose with anything.
Rose produces model files and produces/updates C++ source files. Those
source files can be members of a QNX IDE project if you want, but the tools
don't know about each other.


2. you mentioned that you use Rose C++ tools. When those go away, I
suppose that Rose has other options such as ANSI C++. Any other options?


There are various language choices - Ada 83, Ada 95, Java, VC++, Visual
Basic, etc. For C++, the early Rose versions included "Rose C++", which
includes quite a lot of options on how the code is generated. This lets you
tailor quite a few things. Later Rose versions added ANSI C++, which has
less options for code generation. I've not researched whether using the ANSI
C++ language limits our code generation options in ways that hurt us or not.
My guess is that if it does, it probably wouldn't have to do with QNX
compatibility issues, but would be more in the area of how we've organized
our projects.


3. Do you need to specify compilers options in Rose, or can you delegate
to the tools underneath such as QNX compiler tools (where there are a
number of compiler options)?


If you're talking about compiler command line options, Rose has no
connection to that. You'll still need a system to invoke the compiler/linker
that you manage outside the scope of Rose (makefiles?). If you're talking
about commands/directives within the source code, Rose allows you to
manually add lines most anywhere in the code.


4. I suppose that Rose UML diagrams integrate with the Eclipse platform.
Is this the case?


I don't have any experience with any Eclipse tools other than the QNX IDE. I
saw that Rational has plans for Eclipse offerings - don't know if they have
delivered anything.


Thanks again.

Best Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane wrote:

We've been using Rose with QNX 6 for years, and are quite happy with the
environment. We code generate without issue. Of course you then need to

have

your source code accessible by a Windows box, but that's easily
accomplished. STL is used extensively, but we don't have it modeled.

We've exclusively used the Rose C++ language option, which Rational has

been

warning will go away soon. I'm not sure what implications the ANSI C++
option will have.

If you haven't already, you might also evaluate Rhapsody. Some of our
developers wanted to switch from Rose to Rhapsody, but our management
wouldn't budge.

Do you have specific questions?
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:ccujic$4f3$1@inn.qnx.com...


Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.





Miguel Simon

Re: experience with Rationa Rose + QNX?

Post by Miguel Simon » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:13 pm

Hi Marty...

Some of our projects apply to a multitude of platforms, QNX being one of
them. Now we have a need to unify overall development, and Rational
seems like a natural choice. Your comments, again, are helpful. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane wrote:
I see in the qnx.rtos forum that you're discussing an RTOS adaption layer.
That implies to me that your question is about Rose Real Time rather than
"plain" Rose. I don't have any direct experience with that environment. Our
use of Rose is only to generate structural code, not any behavioral code.
That means that Rose can generate the header files completely (usually), and
that the body files are generated with everything but the method bodies
populated. It never generates code for the method bodies.

Rose Real Time does generate behavioral code, and this raises the issue of
compatibility with the underlying RTOS. I also speculate that it locks you
into a particular design approach for your applications that might be
difficult to deviate from. If it's well suited for your application great,
if not, ...

My previous comment about Rhapsody was because we believed that it looked
superior to Rose Real Time for behavioral modeling and implementation.
However that was not based on a thorough evaluation.
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Marty Doane" <martin.doane@siemens.com> wrote in message
news:cd6467$3f4$1@inn.qnx.com...

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:cd15oo$653$1@inn.qnx.com...

Hi Marty...

I am not sure what questions to ask, but I have a few of them:

1. What specific tool set do we need to get from Rational that will
integrate with QNX tools?

I haven't kept up with how they're packaging things these days - someone
else watches that. We have the "Rational Suite Team Unifying Platform",
which includes a whole set of Rational products. The only one you need for
this context is "Rational Rose Enterprise Edition" - I'm running version
2002.05.20, which may not be the latest. Rose used to come in several
"edtions" with varying capabilities - I don't know what's available today.
Specifically, you need C++ code generation capability, not just modeling
capability.

As far as integration issues, we don't tightly integrate Rose with

anything.

Rose produces model files and produces/updates C++ source files. Those
source files can be members of a QNX IDE project if you want, but the

tools

don't know about each other.


2. you mentioned that you use Rose C++ tools. When those go away, I
suppose that Rose has other options such as ANSI C++. Any other options?

There are various language choices - Ada 83, Ada 95, Java, VC++, Visual
Basic, etc. For C++, the early Rose versions included "Rose C++", which
includes quite a lot of options on how the code is generated. This lets

you

tailor quite a few things. Later Rose versions added ANSI C++, which has
less options for code generation. I've not researched whether using the

ANSI

C++ language limits our code generation options in ways that hurt us or

not.

My guess is that if it does, it probably wouldn't have to do with QNX
compatibility issues, but would be more in the area of how we've organized
our projects.


3. Do you need to specify compilers options in Rose, or can you delegate
to the tools underneath such as QNX compiler tools (where there are a
number of compiler options)?

If you're talking about compiler command line options, Rose has no
connection to that. You'll still need a system to invoke the

compiler/linker

that you manage outside the scope of Rose (makefiles?). If you're talking
about commands/directives within the source code, Rose allows you to
manually add lines most anywhere in the code.


4. I suppose that Rose UML diagrams integrate with the Eclipse platform.
Is this the case?

I don't have any experience with any Eclipse tools other than the QNX IDE.

I

saw that Rational has plans for Eclipse offerings - don't know if they

have

delivered anything.


Thanks again.

Best Regards...

Miguel.



Marty Doane wrote:

We've been using Rose with QNX 6 for years, and are quite happy with

the

environment. We code generate without issue. Of course you then need

to

have

your source code accessible by a Windows box, but that's easily
accomplished. STL is used extensively, but we don't have it modeled.

We've exclusively used the Rose C++ language option, which Rational

has

been

warning will go away soon. I'm not sure what implications the ANSI C++
option will have.

If you haven't already, you might also evaluate Rhapsody. Some of our
developers wanted to switch from Rose to Rhapsody, but our management
wouldn't budge.

Do you have specific questions?
--
Marty Doane
Siemens Dematic

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:ccujic$4f3$1@inn.qnx.com...


Hi...

We are thinking of porting our development to Rational Rose, and I
wonder if any one would like to share their experience with this
integration? How has this worked out for your?

I appreciate any comments that you may have. Thanks.

Regards...

Miguel.






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